The Cinematologists Podcast

Club Zero (w/ Jessica Hausner) & Rumours (w/ Guy Maddin, Evan & Galen Johnson)

In a bumper episode, the penultimate one of the year, Dario interviews Jessica Hausner about her new film Club Zero and Guy Maddin, Evan, and Galen Johnson about Rumours. Both films have limited UK releases this week (Friday, December 6th), and, interestingly, though they are very different films, they have thematic connections, particularly in relation to contemporary crises, social critique, and satirical modes.
Club Zero stars a very well-cast Mia Wasikowska as Ms. Novak, a girlish teacher whose radical ideas about diet lead a group of students down a dangerous path. Dario's conversation with Jessica and composer Marcus Binder explores influence, seduction, and the complexities of societal expectations through the lens of her film. They discuss the dangers of eating disorders, the pressures of social responsibility placed on children, the alienating dynamics of the school environment, and how misinformation can so easily be spread.
Rumours boasts a stacked cast led by Cate Blanchett, who represents the leaders of the G7. Dario talked to director-writer team Guy Maddin, Galen Johnson, and Evan Johnson about the film at the London Film Festival. The conversation navigates the complexities of creative expression in film, touching on themes of self-perception, audience expectations, character development, and the balance between artistic freedom and commercial viability. They discuss the challenges of navigating genre conventions, the significance of casting choices, and the implications of stereotypes in representing national identities.
Neil and Dario then reflect on both the interviews and films, examining their artistic choices, character development, and how well the themes capture contemporary anxieties around authority, ideology, and ambivalence. They also discuss the aesthetics of symbolism and the emotional distance created through cinematography, as well as the broader implications of anxiety and manipulation in youth culture. This leads to a reflection on how artists address the current socio-political moment, how crisis is influencing many film works in an implicit way, and whether a political cinema is possible while maintaining a unique voice in an uncertain, changing cultural landscape.
Thanks to Tom Finney at Blue Dolphin Films
Thanks to Chris Lawrence at Film Publicity
Thanks to George Crostwait and the team at The Garden Cinema
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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
We also produce an extensive monthly newsletter and bonus/extended content that is available on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists. You can become a member for only £3 per month.
We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we'll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.
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Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.
 

Professor Vivian Sobchack, in Conversation

In this return to the long-form interview format, The Cinematologists are deeply honoured to welcome Professor Vivian Sobchack to the podcast. In an incredibly profound and wide-ranging conversation, Dario discusses with Prof. Sobchack a diverse array of topics related to her work and life as one of the most important and influential thinkers and writers on cinema. The subjects covered include:
The Evolution of Film Studies: Vivian reflects on film studies' early formation in the United States and the profound impact of phenomenology on the discipline. She shares rich insights into how our embodied experience shapes our interaction with films.
Her Personal Journey: Vivian offers fascinating accounts of being a young female scholar during the early formation of film studies, providing unique historical perspectives on the discipline’s growth.
Film Phenomenology: If the episode has a central theme, it is Vivian's groundbreaking legacy in film phenomenology. She contextualizes her work within a broader framework, contrasting it with Marxist and psychoanalytic film criticism, and highlights the distinct contributions phenomenology offers to the study of cinema.
Cinema as an Immersive Experience: The conversation explores the intricate relationship between viewers and films, emphasising the shared, immersive experience that makes cinema a unique cultural and artistic event.
Genre Analysis and Science Fiction: Vivian discusses her analysis of genre, particularly focusing on science fiction. She draws on the cultural and philosophical implications of films like Arrival, Inception, and Her.
Reflecting on the interview, Dario and Neil unpack how Prof. Sobchack's work provides invaluable insights for developing more nuanced ways of thinking about the filmic experience. They discuss how her scholarship underscores cinema's role as a mirror to culture, technology, and the human condition. The episode highlights the importance of creating space for in-depth academic dialogue and explores the personal impact Sobchack’s work has had on the hosts. Neil and Dario also delve into the multifaceted relationship between cinema and its audience, emphasising the need to engage with film as an experience rather than merely consuming it.
Prof Sobchack's Biography:
Vivian Sobchack, born in 1940 in New York City, is widely regarded as one of the most influential American film theorists of the past 25 years. In the early 1990s, she played a pivotal role in re-establishing phenomenology as a vital methodology in film studies with her groundbreaking book, The Address of the Eye: A Phenomenology of Film Experience (1992). Her work emphasizes the bodily and material foundations of film viewing, championing an existential-phenomenological approach to moving image media. This perspective is articulated with particular elegance in her celebrated collection of essays, Carnal Thoughts: Embodiment and Moving Image Culture (2004).
A trailblazer in the field, Sobchack was the first woman elected President of the Society for Cinema and Media Studies (1985-1987) and received the organization’s Distinguished Career Achievement Award in 2012. She served for over 20 years as the sole academic member of the Board of Directors at the American Film Institute (AFI). From 1992 to 2005, Sobchack was Associate Dean and Professor at UCLA’s School of Theater, Film and Television. She continues to inspire new generations of scholars as Professor Emerita at UCLA.
This episode is a 50-minute excerpt of the full 1 hour and 50 min conversation. The full interview is available on our Patreon site: Click Here
 
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We also really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written, and we’ll mention it). Sharing on social media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do so if you enjoy the show.
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Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.
 

Author: The JT Leroy Story @ Falmouth Book Festival 2024 (w/Colin Midson)

In what is something of a throwback episode nowadays, Neil hosted a screening of Jeff Feuerzig's film about Laura Albert [JT Leroy] as the opening event of the 2024 Falmouth Book Festival, recording the post-film conversation for the podcast.
For the post-film chat Neil was joined by the director of Falmouth Book Festival, Colin Midson, who had a unique perspective on the story, as he was the publicist for JT Leroy's first book, Sarah, when it was released.
If you haven't seen the film or don't know the story of JT Leroy, we recommend you watch it, or look up the story before listening, not because of spoilers because you know we don't engage with that stuff, but because the story is so wild and incredible, you may need the context to really appreciate the discussion this time out.
Around the live event recording, Neil and Dario get into ethics, charisma, celebrity, the aesthetic of cassettes, Warhol, and much, much more in a really deep and far-ranging discussion about a fascinating film.
Thank you to Colin for his candidness and invitation to do the event, and for the Poly in Falmouth for hosting so beautifully, as always.
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If you haven’t already, please consider becoming a subscriber to our Patreon channel: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists
We are expanding our output so if you enjoy the show and find value in the work, any support you can give would be very much appreciated. You can become a member for the same price as a coffee a month.
We also really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.
___
Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

BFI London Film Festival 2024 - Episode 2

Our second London Film Festival main episode is here, and it's a bumper edition. Dario is in Falmouth visiting Neil, so it's something of a nostalgic live taping from the place where The Cinematologists started. The first film on the agenda is Alex Ross Perry's Pavements, which is a meta-documentary on a mercurial 90s band, Pavement. Neil, with his music film expertise, gives detailed context to the history and mythology of the band, whose cult status is deliberately explored by Ross Perry. It is another film that plays with multiple forms and perspectives and is also an instructive counterpoint to Soundtrack to a Coup d'etat (which we covered in the previous main show).
This episode also features an interview with Australian director Justin Kurzel, who previously made the somewhat underrated version of Macbeth with Michael Fassbender and Marion Cotillard (among an impressive ouvre). His LFF entry this year is a documentary focusing on Australian musician Warren Ellis. The film follows his career but also explores his dedication to a wildlife sanctuary in Sumatra, where rescued trafficked animals are nursed back to health.
Dario then discusses the psychological drama Under the Volcano by Polish director Damian Kocur. It tells the story of a middle-class Ukrainian family finishing a holiday in Tenerife just as the war starts. It's another film that keeps the spectre of apocalypse in the background while focusing on the nuances of familial trauma and the ethical decisions they are forced to confront.
Finally, Hailey and Ben join us to discuss Elton John: Never Too Late, a look back at the singer-songwriter's huge career in the context of his final concert in North America at Dodger Stadium.
Our extended coverage of the festival is on our Patreon channel, to support the show please consider subscribing for as little as £2.50 per month. You get access to all our bonus content. 
We also really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written, and we’ll mention it). Sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show.
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drdariofilms/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cinematologistspodcast
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Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.
 

BFI London Film Festival 2024 - Episode 1

In the first of our 2024 LFF double header on the main feed, Neil and Dario are joined by one of the two correspondents joining us for this year's coverage, Ben Goff.
The focus of the episode are deep dives into key films for Neil, Dario and Ben from their early and pre-festival viewing, on the digital platform and at press and industry screenings on the ground in London, at BFI Southbank and Picturehouse Central. Each of the cinematologists take two films each to pore over, with Dario discussing Mati Diop's Dahomey and Athina Rachel Tsangari's Harvest, Ben delving into La Cocina directed by Alonso Ruizpalacios and India Donaldson's Good One. Finally, Neil goes long on Soundtrack to a Coup D'Êtat (dir. Johan Grimonprez) and short on Sofa So Good (dir. Thiele Brothers).
Elsewhere there is discussion of approaches to festival viewing and a quick overview of Neil and Dario's response to Radu Jude's latest experimental pastiche/provocation/essay Eight Postcards from Utopia (co-dir. Christian Ferencz-Flatz), with some valuable insight from Dario's Romanian partner Bea. 
The Cinematologists is providing consistent, detailed coverage of this year's LFF over on its Patreon. For more information and to support the show, please visit https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists.
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We are expanding our output so if you enjoy the show and find value in the work, any support you can give would be very much appreciated. You can become a member for the same price as a coffee a month.
We also really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.
---
Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.
 

Music Films

In our second episode of the season, we discuss Neil's superb, recently published book Music Films: Documentaries, Concert Films and Other Cinematic Representations of Popular Music.
We explore their significance, evolution, and the complexities surrounding their creation and reception, along with Neil's reflections on the challenges of writing for diverse audiences and the expectations of music fans. The conversation touches on the validity of music films in modern culture, the messiness of the genre, and the importance of representation, particularly regarding black artists and women in music. They also examine the ethical implications of music documentaries and the power dynamics at play in the portrayal of artists. 
Neil's book is so comprehensive we couldn't cover everything but some of the films under discussion include Don't Look Back (dir. D. A. Pennebaker, 1967), Lonely Boy (dir. Roman Kroitor and Wolf Koenig, 1962), Whatstaxx (dir. Mel Stuart), The Punk Singer (dir. Kathleen Hanna), In Bed with Madonna (dir. Alek Keshishian, 1991), The Last Angel of History (dir. John Akomfrah, 1996), American Interior (dirs. Dylan Goch, Gruff Rhys), Miss Americana (dir. Lana Wilson, 2020), and many more.
Here's a link to Dario's Substack article: 10 Music Films you may not seen (and are free on YouTube)
You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Music Films and Their Impact
02:37 Neil's Journey with His Book
06:34 The Validity of Music Films in Modern Culture
08:54 Expanding the Canon of Music Films
11:31 The Messiness of Music Films
14:20 Writing for Diverse Audiences
17:23 Navigating the Expectations of Music Fans
19:50 The Balance of Coverage in Music Films
22:55 Exploring Authorial Voice in Music Documentaries
24:14 The Evolution of Music Film Styles
28:40 The Role of Technology in Music and Film
31:49 Gender Dynamics in Music Documentaries
34:31 Exploitation in Music Documentaries
37:28 The Complexity of Artist Representation
39:28 The Importance of Black Artists in Music Films
42:05 The Legacy of Music Documentaries
46:46 Women in Music: A Historical Perspective
50:47 The Power Dynamics in Music Films
55:32 The Ethics of Music Documentaries
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If you haven't already, please consider becoming a subscriber to our Patreon channel: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists
 
We are expanding our output so if you enjoy the show and find value in the work, any support you can give would be very much appreciated. You can become a member for the same price as a coffee a month.
 
We also really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.
___
Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

Life, Work and Cinema - Season 20 is here

We are back for the 20th season of The Cinematologists Podcast and our 10th year. Neither of us when we started out could have envisaged that we would have done what we have with the Podcast, spoken to so many fascinating film people and cultivated such a loyal audience. 
Indeed, this season represents something of a renewal, as is discussed in the first episode of the season. After taking a break from the last season Dario is back, bringing with him quite a few personal and professional changes that form the basis of a discussion about life, work and cinema.
We reflect on how the context of academia has changed so much in recent years and this has affect how we both view what we do. The also conversation also delves into themes of identity, the value of teaching, and the tension between academia and capitalism, while also highlighting the importance of authenticity and passion in their work. As we look to the future, we are feeling invigorated and excited for new opportunities and the potential even more valuable and joyful experience in making the podcast and bringing to you.
With Dario moving out of his full-time post and into a more freelance space, the Podcast will be aligning with that to some degree. Primarily this means we will be expanding the Patreon channel and hoping to sign up new members.
Another aspect of this is we will offer as many episodes as possible early and in video format on the Patreon. Our plan is to drop the videos as bonus for you on a Tuesday the week they go out and then audio version will go out on the podcast feed on Thursday.
The amount and variety of content you will receive will be much more significant. We plan to continue the newsletters and the after-show bonus episodes. Extended interviews will also be available in full only on Patreon, and coverage of events like the London Film Festival will be extensive.
Because of this, we want to try to entice more listeners to join the Patreon. We would really appreciate your help. If you value the content, please take the time to recommend and share it with your colleagues and friends and, of course, on social media.
We hope you enjoy the new season and all this new content. As always, please get in touch with any feedback or comments about the films we discuss. We always like to mention any interesting points that the listeners make on the show.
We hope you love the new season and, as always, appreciate your continued support.
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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
We also produce an extensive monthly newsletter and bonus/extended content that is available on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists
You can become a member for only £2.
We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.
___
Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

Thinking Through Physical Media (w/Scott Tanner Jones)

In the final episode of the latest season – Neil’s solo adventure – Neil talks to filmmaker, writer and comedian Scott Tanner Jones about collecting physical media. In an episode with a similar approach to the previous one with Kat Flint-Nicol, Neil brings to the podcast a conversation about themes and ideas that permeate his thinking around a particular area of film, and wider popular culture. In this episode Neil and Scott discuss their approaches to collecting films (and records) in physical form.
The conversation takes in areas such as curating what you watch, interest in particular physical media boutique labels, how physical media isn’t the be all and end all, cataloguing the year in film in different ways, studio interest and care in their back catalogues, Scott’s favourite places in his adopted hometown of LA to watch movies, the demand on our eyeballs and they answer the question, is David Lynch quirky?
Films discussed in this episode include Cocoon, Something Wild, Midnight Cowboy, E.T., Midnight Run, MaXXXine, La Chimera, Evil Does Not Exist and Hit Man.
To close out the episode and season, Neil shares some of his thoughts on his favourite releases of 2024 so far, and his first half of the year in film watching more broadly.
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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
We also produce an extensive monthly newsletter and bonus/extended content that is available on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/cinematologists
You can become a member for only £2.
We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it), and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.
—
Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.