The Cinematologists Podcast

Ryan Gilbey (It Used to be Witches)

With the podcast half-way through its tenth year it is a privilege to welcome back a former contributor to the show - read his piece on Clueless for The New Statesman that coincided with his previous appearance on the show - and long-time champion of The Cinematologists, Ryan Gilbey.
Ryan's return is to promote and discuss his new book, the astoundingly good, It Used to be Witches: Under the Spell of Queer Cinema, published this month (June 2025) by Faber.
Around the release date, I (Neil) sat down in Cinema 1 at the Barbican in London to discuss the book, the form(s) of Queer Cinema, Ryan's journey with his sexuality and how cinema is entwined and implicated, being a film obsessive, and the comfort of lists. It was a profound privilege to sit with an old friend to talk about his amazing work and this art form that we both love so much. 
Around this conversation, Dario and I discuss Queer representation and the cinema as a transgressive space, ownership and authorship of texts, and the way that the cinema space affects not only the viewing of a film but in this case, the experience of talking about film. Finally, we talk about the film End of the Century (Castro, 2019, Argentina) - I mistakenly describe it as a Spanish film in the episode, apologies - the film that accompanied my visit to the Barbican to see Ryan, and also the film that magically ends his transcendent and moving book.
This episode of The Cinematologists is dedicated to Barney Gilbey.
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Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists
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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show.
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Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

Tornado (w/director John Maclean)

A decade ago John Maclean made his debut feature, the brilliant Western Slow West (2015).It followed a run of brilliant short films and music videos, as well as some of the late 90s and early 2000s most distinctive music during his time in the Beta Band.
Tornado - Set in the rugged landscape of 1790s Britain, Tornado (Kōki) is a young and determined Japanese woman who finds herself caught in a perilous situation when she and her father’s (Takehiro Hira) travelling puppet Samurai show crosses paths with a gang of ruthless criminals led by Sugarman (Tim Roth) and his ambitious son Little Sugar (Jack Lowden) (Source: Screen Scotland).
In this episode Neil talks to writer/director John Maclean about the genesis of the film, his approach to genre and how the film negotiates and navigates the idea of being a genre film and a period film where both elements have been under-represented in the ways they are here.
Elsewhere, Neil and Dario discuss how the film's story relates to contemporary notions of [digital] feudalism and representation, genre and audience subjectivity, film language and the cinematic and how (tongue in cheek) Maclean might be the new Hitchcock!
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Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists
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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show.
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Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

Crime, Genre, Class, Race, Gender

We're back with an episode featuring just Neil and myself discussing a cinematic topic we both are invested in: The crime/heist genre. The core of this chat is an examination of how the structures of the genre intersect with social, racial, and economic contexts in four specific films. Sparked by our shared admiration for Justin Kurzel's The Order, we trace the lineage of socially conscious crime narratives from classic noir to contemporary thrillers. We consider genre cinema's desire to convey a sense of prestige - think of the notion of elevated horror - and revisit some of the core theoretical foundations of genre as a self-contained system, as proposed by thinkers such as Steve Neale and Rick Altman. Then we tackle four films as case studies:
The Order (2023) - Justin Kurzel
Odds Against Tomorrow (1959) – Robert Wise
Collateral (2004) – Michael Mann
Widows (2018) – Steve McQueen
We analyse how each of these films, in varying ways, deploy genre frameworks to narrate the struggle for power, identity, and survival, and we interrogate the evolving relationship between cinematic pleasure and political subtext.
Shownotes
Rick Altman - Film/Genre (London: British Film Institute, 1999)
Neil Fox - Ashley Clark Curates BFI's Black Star - Director's Notes
Luis M. Garcia-Mainar - Say it with generic maps: Genre, identity and flowers in Michael Mann’s Collateral - Screening the Past
Steve Neale - Genre and Hollywood (London and New York: Routledge, 2000)
Cayton Purdom - Mann Men - Los Angeles Review of Books
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Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists
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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show.
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Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

The Doors & Val Kilmer (w/filmmaker Mark Jenkin)

In late March 2025 we screened Oliver Stone's 1991 epic myth of 1960s America, The Doors, at Newlyn Filmhouse at the invitation of regular Cinematologist, filmmaker Mark Jenkin. The conversation following the screening covered Jim Morrison and the band, 1960s America, Vietnam, film form and the longstanding influence of the film on Mark's work, up to and including his new film, Rose of Nevada, due for release later this year. 
A few days after the screening news came of Val Kilmer's death and that prompted a rejigging of the release schedule for the podcast, so that Neil and Dario could talk in person about the film and Kilmer as an actor, on Neil's planned trip to London to do some taping. 
The result of that visit, and the live screening, can be found in this episode. It's part examination and celebration of Stone's under-discussed film and part celebration and analysis of Kilmer's work as Morrison and across his varied career.
Neil and Dario talk about the actor's individual style and approach and legacy, while also using Dario's recent viewing of the documentary Val (2021) as a guide for understanding Kilmer's work in The Doors. If one of the aims of the screening for the podcast was to get more people engaged with Stone's work and Kilmer's performance, the latter's death means that is sadly more likely now and we hope this discussion adds to that ongoing conversation. 
Thanks to Mark for his commitment to and excitement in doing these screenings, as well as his generosity of thought and collaboration. As well, thanks to Newyln Filmhouse (Kernow) and the Garden Cinema (Covent Garden) for support at either end of the process to make this episode a reality.
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Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists
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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.
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Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

Polish Filmmaker Wojciech Has w/Michael Brooke

As part of this year's Kinoteka Polish Film Festival, currently running in London, Michael Brooke has curated a complete retrospective of the criminally under-known Polish director Wojciech Has. The retrospective, starting from the 1st April 2025 and featuring screenings at the BFI and the ICA, contains Has's short and feature film work in gorgeous restorations. There are talks and events around the films, and the ICA has an exhibition of Polish film posters which is unmissable if you're in the vicinity.
For this episode, Neil talks to curator Michael Brooke about Has's life and work, and legacy both within Poland and to a certain extent more widely. They also discuss the limitations of legacy due to decisions made by Has to stay in Poland. The conversation also covers Has's work as a film educator, Polish cinema more broadly and Michael's route to becoming an expert in the field, shedding light on how sometimes, things just happen that way. 
Elsewhere in the episode Neil and Dario discuss the impact of Has's work on them, at a time when both are particularly invested in the idea of the cinematic, where it can be found contemporarily and the need to engage with form intentionally as audiences, critics and filmmakers and not get drawn into the anodyne world of content that dominates screen culture generally. They discuss Has's work as a formal master, his approach to adaptation and the idea of filmmakers being in dialogue with each other despite the limitations of visibility of work, physical and political borders.
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Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists
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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.
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Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.
 

Rod Stoneman on Artistic Forms of Thought

For the latest episode we are honoured to share a recent talk at Falmouth University's School of Film & Television by Rod Stoneman titled 'Amongst Artistic Forms of Thought'. Rod's talk discussed different and often radical uses of film form to move the art form and audience thinking into different, not literal, not factual, non information-driven places. To illustrate his talk he drew on a number of filmic examples including two different engagements with Hitchcock's work.
To close the talk Rod discussed the work of his late friend Malcolm Le Grice, who had a deep association with the UK South West, as does Rod, and shared some examples of Malcolm's work to illustrate how radical, experimental and artistic (and prolific) he was, right up until his death late 2024. Here is a list of clips used, with links to more information and where possible, links to see the works - 
The Phoenix Tapes (1999) dir. Matthias Muller, Christoph Girardet.
Section 4, Why Don’t You Love Me? (25 mins, 50 secs)
It Felt Like A Kiss (2009) dir. Adam Curtis
Opening 5 minutes, and the section on Enos the Chimp (from 19 mins, 25 secs)
The Edge of Dreaming (2009) dir. Amy Hardie
Histoire(s) du cinéma (1988) dir. Jean-Luc Godard
Berlin Horse (1970) dir. Malcolm Le Grice
Catch The Sun (2000)
Abstract Cinema (1993) dir. Keith Griffiths
Intro, with Stan Brakhage and then Malcolm Le Grice interview (34mins in)
Finiti (2010) dir. Malcolm Le Grice
Dark Trees (2019) dir. Malcolm Le Grice
Elsewhere in the episode Dario and Neil discuss the role and place of radical forms of cinema in film culture and reflect on Rod's talk and his thinking around different ways of engaging as audiences and filmmakers with thought, form and subjectivities. 
 
Rod Stoneman is an Emeritus Professor at the University of Galway. He was the Director of the Huston School of Film & Digital Media from 2003-15 and Chief Executive of Bord Scannán na hÉireann / the Irish Film Board from 1993-2003. Previously a Deputy Commissioning Editor in the Independent Film and Video Department at Channel 4 Television from 1983-93. He has made a number of documentaries, including Ireland: The Silent Voices, Italy: the Image Business, Between Object and Image. He is the author of Chávez: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, Seeing is Believing: The Politics of the Visual and Educating Filmmakers with Duncan Petrie. Following Malcolm Le Grice's death Rod wrote this obituary for The Guardian.
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Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists
----------
You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.
----------
Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.

Mario and Mandela Van Peebles (Outlaw Posse and the African American Western)

It was an absolute joy to welcome actor, director, producer and writer Mario van Peebles to The Cinematologists Podcast. In London to show his new film Outlaw Posse as part of the Black Rodeo season at the BFI, I was able to talk with him and his son Mandela, who also stars in the film, about his lifelong interest in Westerns, particularly in the often cliched, often forgotten role of African American's in the Western mythos.
Outlaw Posse is more of a companion piece than a sequel to his 1993 film Posse; this new work mines similar territory with its generic rawness infused with social commentary but with a kinetic direction that embraces spectacle.The conversation also covers the van Peebles' legacy; Mario's father Melvin one of the true blaxploitation pioneers, director of the now recognised classic Sweet Sweetback's Baadass Song; Mario's own journey in the industry, from his big break in Clint Eastwood's Heartbreak Ridge to his own seminal work as director of New Jack City.Neil and I discuss how wonderfully open and insightful Mario and Mandela were in the interview and further explore his perhaps under-appreciated body of work. We discuss the influence of New Jack City thinking about how that film triggered the New Black Cinema movement and influenced the aesthetics of 80s and 90s filmmaking in its wake._________
For extra bonus content, including extended interviews, bonus podcast and our monthly newsletter consider joining our Patreon community: www.patreon.com/cinematoloigists
 
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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we'll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.
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Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing

BFI Chantal Akerman Retrospective

We are really excited to be collaborating with the BFI once again, particularly for an episode on Belgian auteur filmmaker Chantal Akerman as they begin an in-depth retrospective of her work.
In the autumn of 2022, Akerman's masterpiece Jeanne Dielman, 23, Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles, was voted the greatest film of all time in Sight and Sound Magazine's once-a-decade poll. We covered that moment with a double episode - which would be a fantastic primer for this show if you haven't listened to it yet.
The episode features a conversation in which Dario speaks to Céline Brouwez, the co-ordinator of the Fondation Chantal Akerman at CINEMATEK, and season curator Isabel Stevens. The discourse surrounding the Sight and Sound poll result and its aftermath as a cultural moment frames the chat. Céline discusses the incredible impact of the poll result on her organisation, and Isabel relives the night of the big announcement and the immediate shockwaves that ran through not only cinephile circles but the broader media.
We talk about how the moment caused a something revaluation of what constitutes "great" cinema, not to mention great art, and provoked something of a minor crisis in cultural gatekeeping, particularly with regard to lists.
One of the things that this BFI retrospective - entitled Adventures in Perception - is keen to address is Akerman's body of work beyond Jeanne Dielman. We go into this in detail, talking through the elements of archiving, restoration and presentation. We think through the breadth of her oeuvre, which has few generic boundaries. And, of course, we explore Akerman herself: her formative experience, the influence of her mother, and her rigorous form borne of a commitment to artistic commitment and morality.
Neil and I then reflect further on the notion of a feminist/female cinematic perspective and the philosophical conundrum: can there be an objective definition of art?
As part of the collaboration, we have four copies of the Akerman Auteur series of Sight and Sound to give to 4 sign-ups for our popcorn-level membership (which is £6 per month). So, if you want to grab one of these, sign up or upgrade ASAP. As part of the popcorn tier you will also get a physical postcard from either myself or Neil.
Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists
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You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.
We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we'll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast so please do that if you enjoy the show.
_____
Music Credits:
‘Theme from The Cinematologists’
Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing